Giorgio Marfella 0:05
Good afternoon everybody and and welcome to another ARBV webinar. My name is Giorgio Marfella and I'm the Chair of the Architects Registration Board. As you can see today we have another webinar, the last of this year, and today's title is Demystifying Country Centred Design.
So I'm very pleased to to have as a guest Jefa Greenway. You know Jefa is is an authority, I suppose, in the subject but also is is someone that most of you would know, I'm sure, and he will be taking us through some issues that relate to Country-related design, which as you know it's an area of competence the AACA has introduced since 2021, for which architects are expected to be competent enough, as well as the students, also, of architecture who are now expected to demonstrate skills and competency in Country centered design, so um.
So the the the purpose of today, I suppose, is to provide an an overview that is somewhat practical and and focused in useful way that they would deal with the different layers of complexity and in particular how some common issues may arise also in modest and smaller scale projects, where capacity of architects to engage with these issues is maybe constrained. Now, as always, I'd like to remind you that this is a webinar that is valid for formal continuing professional development. We do provide a QR code, which should be in the next slides that follow, and possibly also throughout the presentation or towards the end, you will be able to provide the ARBV, we will provide attendance that you'll be able to provide back if audited as evidence or formal CPD attendance for for the ARBV.
So with this I can present now Jefa, Dr Jefa Greenway, who's the founding director of Greenway Architects that was established in 1998. Jefa is also an adjunct industry fellow at Swinburne University and an honorary fellow of design at Deakin and a registered architect both in NSW and in Victoria. And his recent roles include the state design review panels in Victoria and NSW, the Ministerial Advisory Boards of Homes Victoria, as well as being a founding member of SONA and Yada. He was a 2020 Design Institute of Australia Hall of Fame inductee. He was named in the Qantas 100 Inspiring Australians and received the 2023 INDE.Award Special Prize, the Luminary. His projects have been exhibited at the Venice Biennale three times and Jefa has won numerous awards nationally and internationally and he was also awarded an honorary degree, a doctorate degree of design in 2024. So congratulations, Jefa, on all these achievements. So again we're very pleased to have you here with us and at this point I can simply hand over to you. As always, I'll I'll be available to moderate some questions as they come through through your presentation. So I'll see you all later. Over to you, Jefa.
Jefa Greenaway 3:34
Thank you. Yeah, so I guess the the purpose of this presentation is, is really hopefully to demystify some of the understandings of country-centred design and start to, I guess, through some practical insights move beyond some of the complexities and and constraints that are often encountered, particularly, I guess, for a more modest and smaller scale projects as well. So, as is sort of customary and protocol, always important to acknowledge that we are indeed on the unceded sovereign lands, in my instance, on Woiwurrung Wurundjeri Country of the Kulin Nation. And you know, really this is a way of, I guess, centering a relationship and an understanding of where we're placed and sort of geolocated in terms of the the various language groups which traverse across this island continent.
You can see here this is the the QR code, so that hopefully helps you, I guess, navigate any questions that might pop up along the way. So, use that and and I know Giorgio will sort of moderate the questions at the end, so feel free to take advantage of of that as well.
Just a bit of a sense too - we do have some construction works directly opposite my office, so you might hear some some noises in the background.
So in terms of, I guess, positioning, I sort of share a blended heritage, so I do have Aboriginal heritage, um, Wailwan/Kamilaroi connections in Northwest NSW, but I I straddled these different dimensions in terms of my sort of professional career as an architect, an advocate, an academic, and also drawing on on that deep sort of heritage as well.
So the way in which I've sort of constructed this presentation is it's done in five parts. Initially, I'll sort of take you through a bit of a a context setting understanding of what country-centred design is in the context of the sort of core competencies that we're seeking to attain, give you a bit of a sense around the sort of process and then start to, I guess, map it beyond a sort of engagement relationship and then start to show you how you can start to inform and shape design particularly, and then use a couple of case studies to sort of illustrate this and tease it out in a bit further, as well, and noting to that there will obviously be some PD questions to complete the competency here today.
So initially, you know, process I guess is something that we'd need to understand and so in the context of country-centred design we can delve really um, superficially and really focus on the sort of blip of time, uh, in the Australian context. And I think this diagram, um, captures it quite nicely in terms of the red bar on the far right-hand corner really sort of focuses on the colonial experience, uh, in the Australian context. But naturally enough, we can go much deeper and we’re drawing upon somewhere in the order of 67,000 years of continuous connection to this place. So that, I guess, that legacy and that deep time history is something that we can certainly touch on in the context of how we centre that relationship to Country.
And so I guess one of the things that I want to really sort of reiterate is this applies in the context of contemporary architectural practice. And so often we, I guess, fixate sometimes on history alone, but it's how it's applied in the contemporary experience of architectural practice. And so our practice, you know, straddles everything from residential projects, educational projects, urban design and a range of different typologies from, you know, stadia, ports, hospitals and so forth. But I guess what I'm wanting to really focus on here is projects where you might be in a in an experience in a practice where you don't have, um, a very large practice or there isn't huge resources which are being sort of thrown at the project and it has much more modest and I guess smaller scale application as well, so it can also equally apply in the context of residential or small commercial works or or or yeah, interior design. I guess the the take home message here is to say that it applies in all contexts, all typologies and therefore it it does have an application beyond it. So what we're seeking to do here is to acknowledge that we're actually on a a learning journey to build a level of cultural intelligence in the space. And so certainly, you know, since uh 2021, um, there has been an area of expanded knowledge around understanding Country. And so, essentially, I guess what I'm wanting to do is understand that certainly across these, um last sort of few years, um, we're all sort of building that capacity and understanding, and so when we speak to Country, we're speaking to an understanding of the geolocation of a particular place-specific approach to design practice, and so that's, I guess, really the key here as well.
And so in terms of the process and the acknowledgment here, you know, all projects in the Australian context are built on this land, so what does that in fact mean and how does that actually apply in reality? And so we are therefore, we're always on Country, whether we're in a major metropolis like Sydney or Melbourne or whether we're in a regional setting or a remote setting or at the urban condition, we are always engaging with Country in that regard. And so, interestingly, over time there's certainly been a level of inquiry and, you know, resources which are readily available and so certainly through the Institute of Architects website, the First Nations Resource Hub hopefully becomes a useful background in terms of those who want to do a little bit further reading and exploration of these areas to really focus in on and understand some of the terminology, some of the concepts, some of the considerations around cultural safety and cultural load, and similarly some are around intellectual property and you know, protecting cultural protocols as well. So those resources are available. So that that is really useful, understanding that, you know, we're not sort of running blind here, there are certainly ample information available out there. Similarly, in the context, for instance in NSW, where they have actually developed again a suite of guidance through the GA NSW, the Connecting with Country framework is a really useful document which builds on Designing with Country document that was created prior to that as well. And so again, this is readily available and able to be downloaded online through Planning NSW website and see the link attached below as well.
And so this particular document is useful, because what it does is it re-centers an understanding that the shifting from I guess, uh, an egocentric to an ecocentric approach, but also understanding that we, as people, fit within a broader, complex system and so ultimately we are just part of of a bigger relationship to Country, along with the flora and fauna and so forth as well, so, it's not this sort of hero sort of mentality, where we're at the sort of the top of the pyramid, to really understand we're part of a more complex layering and relationship to Country in that regard.
And so you can see here, this is just sort of a snapshot from the Connecting with Country framework. But again, it starts with Country, and so it's by no accident that's a starting point because it ultimately it enables us to understand where we are, it shapes our formative thinking, it then leads into design, it starts to shape and
you know, modify, often Country in the delivery phase and then we really should really center on sort of caring for Country dimension, which is very much an ecological practice or a sustainability approach as well. And so similarly there again are a lot of useful readings now being authored by uh, Indigenous architects and practitioners, uh, there's ample sort of, uh, documents and podcasts and articles which have been written really about these, uh, really important issues, um, as it pertains to our Country-centred design as well. Um, and one particular document that I'm very familiar with, being a co-author of, is the International Indigenous Design Charter. And so this was a protocols document that is was sort of over 10 years in the making, it's now a best practice document through the International Council of Design. Again, you can see there's a a link to accessing this particular document, but essentially it becomes a protocols document to step through and pressure test how we're actually responding to culturally responsive design practice through a series of protocols. And so you can see here these 10 steps really help one sort of step through a process to understand how one can, I guess, implement layers which are beyond simply a process of engagement, to then execute it through a design outcome and then layering it up through a series of different dimensions around understanding the capacity for Indigenous leadership, self-determination, understanding specific communities, the process of deep listening and engagement, how it impacts design, how we can embed knowledge systems, um, how it responds to those legal and moral rights considerations and part of our cultural competency, um, and how we can start to implement that in reality. And so you can see, um, this is a useful tool that we apply in all the projects that we undertake, uh, and it becomes a useful mechanism to pressure test and ensure that we're staying on track, to ensure that these dimensions can be incorporated as well. So, this is, I guess the the key aspect here in Part 2 is that we need to shift beyond engagement, towards a design outcome. And so as architects and and practitioners, we're really, you know, at the cold face of creating designs, and so those formative steps, particularly from the conceptual design phase, can start to be informed by a Country-centered design approach. And so the way in which we've sort of organized it in our own thinking, and we've developed a sort of a principles-based approach, is we we don't design simply on Country, we design for, with, and of Country, and consequently what that supports is shifting from a transactional model to a relational model with the communities that we engage with. Um, the notion of reciprocity or mutual benefit becomes really important. Ideally it is restorative, so it's really about caring for Country and thinking about sustainability and our sort of ecological responsibilities as practitioners, that is infused with narratives or storytelling, it starts to reveal those hidden stories of place and consequently it becomes engaging, evocative, empowering, and in certain instances we can actually embed truth telling as well. And so, I guess, the the way in which we start to shift from the engagement, to starting to execute this into real projects, is ideally we look at opportunities where we can support and empower Indigenous enterprise. So, you know, this is a very easy way to think about Country-centred design, is can we partner with Indigenous businesses to build capacity and provide that reciprocity of mutual benefit through the journey of the project itself.
Similarly, you know, there is ample capacity to support, you know, creative collaboration with artists or other practitioners or certainly engaging with companies who may procure products as part of the supply chain in terms of our actual specification. Again, it's an easy win, it's a simple way we could start to execute and incorporate moments where we start to explore and engage culturally as well. And so again, you can see some some simple examples here in terms of particular products which are being employed in given projects.
Similarly, this idea of understanding Country. Now there's certainly some very useful documents, you know, Paul Memmott’s produced a terrific book focusing on this, Alison Paige, again, in a series that comes out of the The National Museum as well. So yeah, there's ample documents that we can source to really understand Country and start to understand, for instance, in this instance, the seasonality of Kulin Nation of projects that we undertake across Greater Melbourne as well.
Similarly, yeah, where we can start to support voice and agency and start to provide opportunities to hear from the community themselves, obviously that enriches the outcome, so of course the engagement process is integral and and important, but it's it's really for a particular purpose. It's not engagement for engagement's sake, it's really engagement to support design excellence and and a great project outcome as well. Similarly, you know where we engage with Indigenous practitioners, we need to sort of shift from a sort of, a super tokenistic sort of approach and and and getting somebody in just to, uh, tick a box. It's really starting to support an opportunity where we can start to engage meaningfully and, you know, in that sort of collaborative partnership model uh as well. Uh and similarly, you know, where we can start to incorporate it into design outcomes can be done in many and different ways, and so this is where the collaborative model becomes important and it starts to infuse the actual DNA of the design thinking, is certainly something that I advocate quite strongly in terms of it starts to provide that means for design inspiration, which I'll touch on a little bit further. And then it comes back to this question, who's benefiting from this process? If we're starting to engage with Indigenous cultural and cultural-centred design, are there opportunities where we can actually broaden the framework of opportunity and start to ensure that many benefit through this, this process as well.
And so speaking about the sort of partnership, you know again, you know where we come together, when we pull our resources, often we create innovation because we're actually engaging with a sort of a multidisciplinary design team and that includes also First Nations practitioners, as well, on particular projects which may be
a little bit larger in scale. And so one of the the other critical consideration that we need to be mindful of sort of cultural load that is imposed on traditional owners, elders and knowledge keepers in terms of the engagement. So can we find mechanisms where we simplify the process so as we don't unduly impinge on the the resource constraints that First Nations communities often encounter regularly as well. So, this really comes through the the sort of critical aspect, and this is really around sort of the design inspiration. And so I guess the way I've sort of crystallized it is across these sort of ten simple domains, again, a real easy sort of step in to sort of understand how we can start to inform terrific design outcomes through a Country-centred designed lens. So the starting point is really understand the context of whose Country we're working on, you know, going into some level of history to really, you know, I guess, reveal those layers of history and memory of place. Again, it's a really useful way in, to find a hook and a connection to the specificity of the places in which we undertake our work and then thinking about, for instance, the materiality. So often there we think about the colours of Country. So you can see there's a symbiotic relationship between materiality and colour sometimes, but for instance, if we did some geological pulls of a particular site, we can reveal those layers of the geological strata, for instance. Similarly, the specifications, and I touched on this before in terms of collaborative opportunities with other creatives. So again in the actual specific specification of which products that we use that can obviously support a procurement outcome as well. And then thinking about the provenance, where are the materials actually sourced from? So can we source materials which are local?
And therefore again reducing those sort of embodied energy considerations as well. Again, this notion of the benefit opportunity and the reciprocity, sustainability is certainly at the core. So we're caring for Country in terms of thinking about our ecological responsibilities and then we start to support a Country-centred design approach, because typically in days gone by, this is the sort of normative way in which we would undertake practice as First Nations people. We would care for Country and in turn it cares for us. And similarly, this creative collaboration provides an enrichment to the design process and it enables us to have many design voices coming together collectively to create a design outcome. So yeah, speaking to that, you know, we do many projects across Australia and particularly in Victoria as well. And so you can see here, you know, understanding the place in which we're undertaking the work. So you know, looking at the sort of pre-colonial um, information of a particular site and then layering it up through time, and understanding how places are transformed and adapted over time; that can often provide some very useful cues to the way in which we think about Country. Um, but it really starts with geolocating ourselves within Country and knowing whose Country that we're actually working upon as well. And so this particular project was for a Heritage Trust and it's very much riffing on that cultural mapping and cultural revealing through sort of historical uh exploration to reveal that the relationship to the river in this instance was really important for us. So we, you know, employed you know materials which are um sourced locally in terms of uh basalt in this instance; we used colour to evoke the colours of Country, we used a particular product for this for the ceiling to sort of reflect the the sort of kinetic energy and movement of water. So you can see some very simple devices in terms of this was, essentially, adaptive repurposing of an existing building as an interior fit out. Um, but again it's it's really employing this Country-centred design approach as part of the interior fit out, uh approach. But again, you know, speaking about that broader opportunities, we engaged in this instance with an Indigenous client, Indigenous builder, Indigenous artists. So it becomes a much broader approach to design thinking where we're actually bringing in as many uh, practitioners to the process to execute this project, so it adds a a level of cultural authenticity. So um, you know, quite a unique um opportunity and offering. But again, it was quite a discreet and small project that not a massive project by any stretch, but it enabled us to, I guess, tell a very good story and I guess support that reciprocity and mutual benefit piece across a number of different businesses and enterprises as well. And similarly, you know, this is a single residence for a client. And again, you know, while it's a contemporary new residence, you know, employing the colours and textures and materialities of Country, using natural materials where possible, um was very much a responsive approach to a Country-centred design. And so in this instance, you know, we really wanted to to use the materials, the textures, the tactility, um, the colours, to really engage with place. And so again, while it's a private residence, you know in the background we're evoking a Country-centred design approach in terms of the design methodology, and so while it's certainly again, not a massive project and and a project for a private client, we can then view it with a particular sensibility as well, which is very much focused on Country as well. And so again, you know, as we know, there's a sort of intimacy to the the private residence and so sort of enveloping with the colours of this particular landscape in terms of there's some sort of a linear park at the base of this site, so again using the colours to sort of evoke a sense and understanding scale and proportion because it relates to habitation and for a family as well. And then again we, a very small intervention at RMIT University, a landscape design and again, just simply using, you know, endemic and indigenous species from this particular bio-region, echoing some of the sort of cultural motifs in collaboration with the community, again, and use it with a level of authenticity, yet a very modest and small scale project, in this instance, it was a project there somewhere in the order of less than half a million dollars. So again, you can see these ideas can have application at various scales and and you know different levels of complexity in a in a project and different topologies as well. And again in this one, you know, we engaged with an Aboriginal artist and an Aboriginal landscape designer and we employed their cultural interpretation as a mechanism to tell the story, and through research we were able to sort of capture that graphically to sort of tell the story and give some context to what the project was all about. And again, this is another project we're doing at the University of South Australia. It's a landscape design and it's more interior design. And again, we we're using species from Kaurna Country in Adelaide.
We're picking up on the colours of the the sands of of Kaurna Country, particularly in collaboration with the community and then we're starting to bring those colours and those textures and those materialities into the interior experience as well. So, using Australian hardwoods, using cultural motifs, working with local artists and sort of echoing the geological strata of this particular part of country as well. So again, you see very simple devices, but it's starting to inform a design outcome, but equally it's actually provided an impetus for design inspiration as well.
There's another project that we did at Swinburne University, a landscape intervention, an urban design intervention. And so again, what we tried to do is sort of riff off the existing context. There was an existing native garden that was done with aWurundjeri Elder and then we started to, again, started to reveal those Iayers and starting to build up a story and then starting to, you know, centre a relationship in this instance to the um, the five uh nations, uh Kulin nations, um, which make up Greater Melbourne, and then we use those sort of um, devices to centre these different moments within the landscape. So again, you know, very simple, a very modest budget in this instance again, but again, it's it's evoking a story, it's using species from the particular locality. So again, that Country-centred design, they're climate adapted, so they're very much responsive to the place. And then we start to tell the stories by sort of building up these layers of of different experiences as well, to tell about a bigger story around Country.
Another project that we're currently working on is the UTS National First Nations College, so it's a that's a 240 bed facility. We've got an existing heritage building, so this is obviously a larger scale, but you can see that the same ideas are applying from the very small little intervention of a of a tiny little project at RMIT to a much larger project. But again, you know, we're echoing the colours of Country. We're, you know, orientating to the landscape and the distant relationship to the harbour and the mountain ranges, we're employing colours and textures, we're evoking a story of Country and we're straddling both existing heritage in terms of 1950s heritage building and then a new intervention and it's sort of moderated between a relationship to between landscape, architecture, urban design as a sort of cohesive story, building upon that sort of Country-centered design approach as well.
And so again, you can see the landscape takes on a particular language, the the textures, the materials, the choice of products that we employ. And then you can see here on the heritage building itself, we've engaged with local artists to start to layer it up and and give another, yeah, quality and experience as as part of the public domain.
So, what I'm sort of moving to now is the sort of, the final sort of part of the presentation. It's really looking at a couple of case studies to really illustrate and tease this out a little further.
So the first project is the Garma Institute. It's in North East Arnhem Land in Northern Territory, you know, a pretty amazing opportunity, a project for the Yothu Yindi Foundation. But the key aspect here is around reciprocity, so it's a it's a federally funded project, and it's done with the Yothu Yindi Foundation, which is a proud organisation led by Yol?u leadership on Country. And so that reciprocity is really important in terms of bringing people together to realise a greater outcome. And so this is located overlooking the Arafura Sea on an island, so quite a unique setting. You can see it here, that orange dot there locates where it's actually positioned, you know, a very unique setting. But again, you know it's important that in this instance we start to use this Country-centered design ways of thinking, to start to reveal those stories and start to inform and shape the design. And so the ecology is something that we're very much responsive to. So it's a it's a unique setting, so that then becomes the mechanism to start to unlock some of the stories of that place and acknowledge that particular context, and so you can see the materiality with the sort of weathered stone and rocky outcrops, which are dotted through this landscape. So this becomes the impetus for how we think about the design itself. Similarly, you know, given it's located on an island, you know the flora and fauna start to shape our thinking from termites to um, you know, ant nests and and the like, you know, they start to shape our thinking, so we're we're starting to interrogate an understanding of the site. Uh, similarly the sort of Country-centered design approach you can see, you know, there's a sort of, uh, uh, a majesty about this particular setting, um, and there's a diversity from, you know, Darwin Stringybarks to paper bark to stony outcrops of of granite. These are all starting to shape our thinking about the project as it starts to evolve. And uniquely in this project there is in fact cultural practice. So they removed the bark and actually made bark painting the backstory of the project as well and so you can see how the the removal of the bark is actually something that is done on site. So, there's obviously a unique context here, um, but again, the history. So we started to have a series of conversations with the community and we were able to reveal that anthropologists have come through this area in this region and it ties back to some of the cultural material which was actually collected from this area and seeks to be, hopefully returned onto the site as well. And so that knowledge exchange of the stories, of the conversations, start to shape our thinking and start to shape the actual design direction. And similarly, you know, I was just thinking about the utility of the materials that can be harvested from the site. They're often used for things like creating bags and baskets. using the actual the fibres to to do the weaving practices as well, but ultimately it comes back to community. So, supporting and engagement and opportunity to have conversations obviously enriches the outcome, so that cannot be underestimated, but again understanding the deep legacy. So in this particular area, the bark conditions, which are actually passed on to government, is part of Australian history. So again, you know, by doing this historic research, we were able to reveal some of these stories and they start to support how we develop the design, and so while I'm not actually showing you anything about the actual finished design, as as as well as part of the presentation, it's showing you the process of how we actually come to inform our thinking through a Country-centered design approach and lens, to actually shape how we've actually developed the design itself.
So, the the final case study project is a project that we did as part of the Melbourne Metro, so the above ground works. It's located down near the Shrine, we call it the Casuarina Pavilion and it again, this is a very small intervention, quite a small and modest project, but it resonates with a Country-centered design approach. So this is where it's located, so you can see there in the green there's a landscape corridor adjacent to the ANZAC Station and in close proximity to the Shrine of the Remembrance. So it is but a a small sort of urban intervention within in a broader landscape setting, but is very much shaped by a caring for Country approach. So it's really thinking about the hydrological movement of water, Traditional land management practices located in an area which would have previously been a chain of ponds and billabongs and wetlands, and elementally the way in which we've thought about this project was to have a series of cultural anchorings.
So we started with the story of the Casuarine, which is a species which is important particularly for Boonwurrung community, which is where this project is located. The movement of water, the structural legibility, so the clarity and I guess the both the robustness but also the frugality of the structure and then the provenance where materials are sourced and then the elemental composition really sort of celebrated the roof, the column, the ground plate and then was auspices by Cultural interpretation as well. So you can see this Country-centered approach started from the the very inception of the design thinking, and so the inspiration is the actual the fronds of the the Casuarina of the sheoak, so they're elongated, they're striated, but interesting when you look at the sort of geological, if you look at the actual structure, sorry, of the actual fronds, the movement of water sort of beads across surface. And so that movement of water was something that we were particularly interested in. And so you can see here, tectonically the actual structure of the fronds of the of the Casuarina has this sort of serrated edge, and so that became a spark for our sort of design thinking. And so as we started to develop and evolve it, we then really wanted to respond to the clarity and simplicity and frugality of a typical, you know, structure,
Aboriginal housing, and then you can see the sort of elemental construction of the original pavilion before we started to to put the roof on and and start to develop the detail a little bit further. But you can see elementally that clarity of the structure and the tectonics very much speaks to the traditional housing construction techniques of Aboriginal people for millennia. And then you can see elementally starting from the footings, to the ground plane, to the elemental construction of perimeter seating, the columns, the soffit, the roof structure and then the roof, which is a butterfly roof made out of out of Aramax, which is really celebrating that hydrological movement of water and then actually starting to celebrate that as part of the language architect architecturally. So there's there's a clarity and a simplicity that we've employed. So you can see elementally it's it's primarily three materials, stone as the ground plane, steel for the the structure and then some timber inserts, as well using Australian hardwoods. And then you can see this idea of the celebration of the movement of water with this oversailed gutter, which is then the water oversails and is collected in a receptacle. The butterfly, the butterfly roof really celebrates that movement of water and then you can see that sort of serrated edge to the actual Aramax roofing. And then also the use of the colour that we employed again is sort of picking up on the colours of nature. So again you can see this is very much such a Country-centered design methodology and approach, employed in a very small pavilion structure within the landscape setting, but it's very much shaped by those original principles. But the idea was seeded, in fact, by a conversation with the the Boonwurrung elders and knowledge keepers, and then you can see here what we've got is the setting of this small pavilion. It is located within a sort of a swale which manages overland flow and hydrological movement of water. But again, it's it's quite a simple project, but it's also having a dialogue with the Anzac Station as well, that by Hassell, Weston Williamson + Partners and RSHP. So we sort of inverted it. They had a sort of a timber roof with green structural steel members supporting the roof. We sort of inverted that and we had a green roof and then we had steel structure generally. So there's sort of a, I guess, a bit of a symbiotic relationship between some of the other elements in proximity as well. And so you can see here very simple sort of parti diagram of the butterfly roof, the gutter in the middle, oversail to then be picked up by the receptacle, sitting within a a broader sort of landscape setting as well. It's a simple structure for seating and barbecues and the like, so it's really about bringing people together. You can see the profile of that roofing, particularly the edge of the Aramax. You can see seating elements around and then they they also speak to incorporation of cultural story and narrative and language. You can see that it is on slope sites so that hydrological movement of water is picked up by native vegetation, um as well, and with sensitive urban design strategy done, uh, in collaboration with Hassel. And then you can see elementally the materiality is simply uh using uh blue stone and granite uh which is sourced and provenanced uh to Victoria, in a quarry here in Victoria, timber using Australian hardwoods, seating elements, native vegetation and then the steel structure of the actual canopy for the pavilion itself. And you can see there's a bollard there on the right hand side, so it's got cultural interpretation, which actually embeds the story and tells the story as well. And so you can see here it’s but a blip within this very sort of densely populated area of of residential towers and commercial towers adjacent to the the metro station itself. And then you can see that celebration of water and hydrological movement captured by the stainless steel receptacle, you’ll see the sort of showcasing and celebration of structure. Um, and you can see how it all comes together. And so it's very much picking up on that sort of Country-centered design, uh, thinking and methodology. You can see that where that serration of the profile of the actual roofing profile comes from an exploration and research into the fronds of the she-oak and then you can see the the sort of finished result. And again you can see the colours sort of picking up on the colours of of Country and the colours of the landscape. And again all the species are used and employed are endemic Indigenous species of this bio region, and then you can see how, for instance, language has been carved into the seating elements here in collaboration with traditional owners, elders, knowledge keepers. You can see the interpretive panel in the foreground here. You can see its relationship to the Metro station beyond and also the the Shrine beyond.
So it's sitting within this broader, uh, setting, uh, within sort of the heart of of Melbourne as well. And so again, uh, the sort of, I guess the hero image to really understand that, that sort of gesture. So it's a very simple, um idea, but you know, really looking at the finesse and the detail stemming from the original approach to engagement, mapping to the International Indigenous Design Charter, seeded by a story gifted to us by the elders and then executed through a careful exploration of of history and connection and then starting to use all the devices set up for architecture to realise that broader sort of design inspiration and aspiration as well. So you can see here again the simple elements which make up the whole, steel, the timber, stone and sourced primarily from Victoria. A couple of finishing images, which gives you a sense of the way we've realised this project. So ultimately this this project is really about people. It's for Melbourne, it's from this place, it's resonating and telling stories that relate to its context, it responds to, I guess, it's considered approach to sustainability, but it's very much seeded by a a Country-centered design approach. So we'll leave it there and we should have now an opportunity to to field any queries that you might have.
Giorgio Marfella 43:11
Thank you very much. This is really inspiring how you're able to to, you know, drive your projects by putting together obviously these cultural inputs and particularly I'm fascinated to see the the impact of materiality and how that translates also to construction. I suppose it's really, it's really exciting.
Giorgio Marfella 43:29
Now we have some some good questions, so I'm just going to run through them some some I think are very, very interesting. So the first one is the all projects involve many stakeholders as part of the design process, users, clients, community, cultures and nations. And so the question is, should the competency be expanded to be more diverse and inclusive across all stakeholders? So, in other words, should the competency be about engagement? And here the question also puts the comparison with UK, where, I suppose there's a probably here a case for for a broader cultural heritage. So, in other words, should should we embrace more stakeholders than multiple cultures other than obviously the Indigenous cultures that we acknowledged?
Jefa Greenaway 44:16
Oh, certainly. I I I think, you know, the importance of this thinking is it has application more broadly. So, good engagement results often in good outcomes or a richer outcome in terms of the design process. And so certainly in some ways it it's a pretext to sort of analyse our, I guess, ethical responsibilities as as architects to bring people on the journey with us, to support true voice and agency and capacity building. But certainly I think there's a uniqueness here because we're actually in the Australian context, drawing on on a deeper history, um and certainly where we can start to to add those additional layers, you know, it's not so much an encumbrance or a or a a difficult hurdle to encounter, to me it's actually can be reframed as a strength-based approach which actually enriches architecture and creates better outcome, and it supports this notion I call design equity. It ensures that other perspectives, other voices are also embraced as part of architecture.
Giorgio Marfella 45:25
Yeah, thank you. So, so by all means it does not exclude other cultures to be part of this, [No, no, no, not at all] but it's it's about obviously reminding the importance of including this very important culture in an Australian context. And and so and the second question is the said from your project experience as engagement with local Indigenous groups resulting in massing, citing and reappropriation of existing land use, or does it usually result in the application of materials and motives?
Jefa Greenaway 45:56
Yeah, that's that's that's a really terrific question. I guess initially and and you know, I guess to step back a a little bit, it's only since the sort of, uh, early 90s that we had an Aboriginal architect registered, uh, you know, in in Australia, uh, as best as we can determine. So the the ability to actually influence architecture through First Nations practitioners, um, has been limited. So we're we're really building upon upon a fairly recent story in terms of the contemporary experience. But ultimately, from my perspective as as a practitioner, is while motif and colours and materiality are useful ways in, in an ideal world it actually does inform those bigger moves and bigger decisions about land use, massing, the the big positioning of an architectural proposition, and ideally it should be spatial. And so you can see with that small little pavilion proposition, you know, all the different moves are informed by a Country-centred lens, but it's actually applying in terms of the positioning of the pavilion, of the orientation, of the, you know, the tectonic expression. So, it's not simply an appliqué or sort of surface treatment, and it's certainly something that I've sort of railed against is what I call the muralisation of culture, where it's surface treatment, where it's decoration and ultimately, to me it needs to have depth, and hence the reason of sort of broadening it out and saying, well, there are also opportunities around, you know, reciprocity and mutual benefit, there's opportunities for procurement, there's opportunity for other means which often sit a little bit outside of architecture, but ultimately, you know, for me, it's where land and becomes really compelling is when we're actually supporting a, you know, a sense of design excellence through a particular cultural lens, which then adds a a richness which moves beyond surface.
Giorgio Marfella 48:05
Yes. So I mean to it's certainly not a superficial range, certainly not in the way you do it, [Yes] I suppose, you know, it's it's actually a generative mechanism, for lack of a better word, that that that informs the architectural outcome as you pointed out also the tectonics, but but you pointed out there's also opportunities in the architectural process to involve, for example, with builders or subcontractors that somehow expand beyond the actual built outcome, right.
Jefa Greenaway 48:36
Yep.
Giorgio Marfella 48:40
And so the the third question is, it's an interesting, very interesting one. So a bit more contentious I suppose in the sense of of the difficulties that could be encountered by architects and and it's this, how would you approach engagement with First Nations communities regarding a project they may not support, for example, the development of an animal shelter for cats, which are not native in into Australia and that could negatively impact local Australian wildlife. And so in this particular instance the the question says that that I haven't had success with First Nations engagement with that kind of project.
Jefa Greenaway 49:19
Yeah, that that that's a that's a useful question to ask because, ultimately, it's for the traditional owners, elders and knowledge keeps to decide which projects they'll in fact engage with. So there should never be the expectation that you must engage with traditional owners or elders, but it ultimately supports this notion of self-determination and true agency, that they have capacity to decide whether they actually want to align themselves to a given project or contribute to a particular project. And ultimately, you know, we similarly have agency as architects. So while we may not get the opportunity to engage directly with First Nations communities, we can still, you know, understand our our responsibility as practitioners, for instance, to think about sustainability, to understand the impact of the projects that we agree to contribute to. So we similarly have have agency in our decisions, but I think that the key message here is to say that there is no mandatory obligation on all projects for people to engage with First Nations perspectives or, you know, engagement directly in terms of supporting an engagement process with First Nations people. Where we can, obviously it provides benefit and opportunity and capacity, but it can also be challenging as well. We we need to call that out, because there are resource constraints, there are considerations around cultural load, where essentially First Nations communities need to triage the projects that they'll engage with because they simply don't have the capacity and the time to do all the projects. We need to ideally acknowledge that when we're bringing in cultural expertise, that they should be remunerated for their time and and their their insights, equal to, you know, a structural engineer. So again, you can see that there are complexities and layers to it. But equally, we need to just acknowledge that it cannot apply in all instances because there are often layers of complexities that we need to weigh up.
Giorgio Marfella 51:33
Yeah. And certainly, I mean, in this case, it seems that the architects have at least done the due diligence to at least explore that opportunity as a beginning. But I think you made it very clear that there might be instances in which it's not possible. And you mentioned also the the issue of potential cultural overloads, you know, from the community, they may not be able to participate to every single project, of course, [That's right] which is important, important to understand.
Giorgio Marfella 52:02
There's another other question, actually. Um, I like to how sharing of knowledge is an objective, says the question. Is this knowledge being captured, recorded and stored for retrieval by architects? Or is it only accessible through engagement with indigenous elders on a one-off basis?
Jefa Greenaway 52:23
Yeah, well, this is a a tricky one in in some regards. Well, firstly, what we try and do, wherever possible, is whatever research, whatever exploration that we go through in the journey of the delivery of an architectural outcome, where we're engaging directly with, you know, uh, First Nations groups, is we share that information. So we we pass it on, so that becomes a legacy of the project, that we actually support that reciprocity and knowledge exchange, because there are certain instances where we've engaged with communities where we've actually revealed information they weren't actually aware of, because we've actually gone deep and done some research and we pass that information on. So that that becomes something where um, there is a a two-way exchange. Ultimately, you know, the the journey that we go on with individual clients is is something where where you know we're engaged specifically for a given project, whether it's disseminated beyond that, um, that's ultimately for the client to to decide. And obviously personally, yeah, we engage quite frequently within the public realm to communicate the work that we do and to tell some of those stories and impart that and and share that knowledge as well. So, and obviously having been an architectural educator for for decades, having taught at the University of Melbourne for over 20 years, you know, this paying it forward and passing on knowledge is, there's a sense of an acute responsibility that we need to do that as practitioners as well. [Mm] So that exchange I think is is important.
Giorgio Marfella 53:58
Yeah. So in a way architecture can be the medium of passing the knowledge in itself, right. So, so we we advocating for that and so we have an opportunity as architects to, yeah, to be recipient of that.
Jefa Greenaway 54:06
Yeah, and similarly, that's why we often incorporate things like cultural interpretation on our projects. So yeah, the general public and people passing by can actually understand what this project is about, why, why it's done in a particular way or what, what are the stories which are encoded in place. So you can see it then does actually support a dissemination more broadly beyond simply the client group.
Giorgio Marfella 54:33
Yeah, very good #5. So as a landscape architect, we tend to take for granted being guided by Country in our design outcomes. Have you also found that robust, meaningful, Country-centered design needs a very holistic blurred interface between traditional architecture and landscape architecture?
Jefa Greenaway 54:55
Oh, certainly. You know, obviously you know an integrated design solution doesn't stop at the threshold of of the building, so that's seamless connection between interior and exterior, understanding that you know within a a Country-centered design approach, you know it's it's it's anchored in a relationality to Country, so therefore the the landscape, the setting in which it's actually positioned is integral. So therefore in an ideal world the the continuation of a multidisciplinary approach becomes really key, and so therefore the collaboration with landscape architects, um as well, is is really important and often, you know, our projects sort of bleed into landscape and urban design beyond simply architecture as well. But then it also pulls into the interior as part of the interior design, as well as the architectural expression. [Mm, mm-hmm] So you can see it's it's very much focused on an approach which is integrated and moves beyond the silos as well. So it becomes a collaborative model of design execution where we pool our collective resources and capacities and skills for a bigger outcome, which is focused on a Country-centered approach.
Giorgio Marfella 56:00
Yep. Yeah. And I think your your work demonstrates this quite well. In fact, this this link between landscape and interiors and yet it is architecture, no, no question about it. [Yes] Yeah. OK, there's another the last question probably. Yes, we can still take this. So, here it is. How do you grapple with the idea that you might have materials on a project that engage with Country, yet the material itself might be imported from overseas? For example, the powder coat colour of window frames might be picking up on colours from the landscape, but the windows themselves are imported from overseas? It's a very provocative question, I suppose.
Jefa Greenaway 56:49
Yeah, yeah. Uh, it's a it's a constant challenge, um, and we we often need to compromise. And so in an ideal world, of course we would source things locally, but we know in the Australian context we don't necessarily have the manufacturing base, we don't have necessarily the scale to actually realise that outcome and we can obviously go bespoke and and source from small artisan businesses to to provide particular products and materials as part of the specification, but that can also be cost prohibitive. So we we do live within the sort of commercial realities of practice,
and sometimes we we do need to compromise and sometimes we we do our best. We often advocate for particular outcomes, but yeah, we win some, we we lose some. We don't always get our our way to to realise the full breadth of the ambition of a project.
Giorgio Marfella 57:43
And I suppose your practice does not exclude, or correct me if I'm wrong, that the opportunity, there might be some contradictions. Is there a possibility?
Jefa Greenaway 57:51
Yes. Uh, we we need to, uh, embrace contradiction and complexity in practice because we we are often almost need to develop like a priority matrix of what's really important, what are the red lines that we won't cross and therefore we we do have a a hierarchy of importance to work through some of those elements which are, you know, must haves versus would like to have. So we do need to navigate that complexity.
Giorgio Marfella 58:20
Last question, very quick, very brief. Does every project need to be designed on Country?
Jefa Greenaway 58:31
I think in an ideal world, in the Australian context, there's such a richness and a diversity and depth of connection through time that we should certainly focus on Country as a starting point. Knowing where our project's located, know whose traditional lands we're working on, engaging with some of those stories, I think enriches design and enriches architectural outcomes, and so as a result, I think yes, it should ideally, but in some instances where we're constrained and there's, you know, there's difficulties in grappling with it, but there's no harm in trying.
Giorgio Marfella 59:11
So might not necessarily need up to finish design. Well, it's always designed on Country to be clear. I mean, but but the point is that, you know, it's certainly why not starting all the time at least and then then see what opportunities may arise. They may have different degrees of outcomes.
Jefa Greenaway 59:19
That's right. Yeah, that's right. Well, I guess lastly, too, sometimes we surreptitiously and by stealth encode a Country-centered design approach, although it may not be necessarily overt or, you know, discernible, but in our design thinking we've executed with that mentality and that sensibility, and we've brought that, ourselves, as part of our mode of practice.
Giorgio Marfella 59:57
Thank you very much. It was very illuminating and I'm sure the audience says is very well received, as many others in architectural community you're very well known and we're really thankful that you're taking your time to be with us today. And there might be some other follow-up questions that we might be in a position to hand over to to Jefa to to clarify. I'm going to close here. I would like to remind, obviously there was a QR code, you can use that to access the questionnaire and I also take the opportunity to to close this this year. It's been a fairly intense series of webinars, that we we, judging from the feedback we're receiving we will continue to to provide to architects here in Victoria. So we're very pleased to have very high levels of attendance. And so I take the opportunity again to thank Jefa but also all the other speakers who who have contributed to to these lunchtime webinars in this format.
And and also take opportunity to wish everybody a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year for those who celebrate it or in any case a good summer and end of year celebrations as they may come. So thank you again Jefa and I look forward to see you all next year.
1:01:15
Thank you.
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